Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll

Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 10:53 · pre 203 meseca #1

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61D0ZC20100214

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BERLIN (Reuters) - A majority of Germans want debt-ridden Greece to be thrown out of the euro zone if necessary and more than two-thirds oppose handing Athens billions of euros in credit, a poll published on Sunday showed.

Hihihi, posle lakomih bankara, na redu za socijalnu pomoc su Grci... koji su, da osvezimo memoriju, frizirali (lazirali) svoje knjige kako bi usli u EUR zonu i gde masa firmi i pojedinaca taje porez (dakle, ima odakle da se pokupi para, samo sto im je drzava nesposobna i ogrezla u korupciju)...

Ali naravno, ovo sto svabe zele se nece desiti - i Grci ce dobiti svoju socijalnu pomoc "da se nadje", naravno - sto bi to bio problem, kada su to i ovako i onako "narodne" pare @#(@#(&*@#(*@#

I naravno - najkomentari:

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As all Greeks, I would be reliefed if Germany could finally pay us all WWII relating debts, so they wouldn’t need to loan us more money. Plus interest!

Tako je... pozivajte se na WWII jos 1000 godina kada god napravite neko njesra. Sto se ne bi pozvali i na rimska osvajanja pa trazite pare od Italije #@(*@#)(

Kako je lepo ziveti iznad svojih mogucnosti... pogotovu kad imas suggar daddy-ja koji ce to sve lepo da pokrije :)

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 10:56 · pre 203 meseca #2

Grcka je oduvek bila takva, nikakvo to nije iznenadjenje. Ono sto ce biti problem jeste Spanija i Italija, ako se nastavi pad proizvodnje i rast nezaposlenosti. Grcka ako pukne nema toliko velike stete po euro zonu ali zato ove dve ako puku bice svasta...

Mozda ima i dobra strana, ako su Grci fer dace vam (DE tax payerima) popust na letovanje sledece godine :P

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 11:01 · pre 203 meseca #3

Hehe bankari ih vec zovu PIGS (Portugal / Italy / Greece / Spain)

Nego pazite sta kaze njihov premijer:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8513430.stm

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Greek PM Papandreou calls EU response 'timid'

Mr Papandreou told cabinet members at a televised meeting in Athens that the EU lacked coordination and undermined Greece's credibility.

Hihihi "EU undermines Greece credibility"... kao, Grcka zvana "cook my books" uopste ima neki kredibilitet da pocnemo od toga :)

Napad je najbolja odbrana... jao kako bih ih ja sutnuo ukoliko sutra... ma danas ako moze :)

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Mozda ima i dobra strana, ako su Grci fer dace vam (DE tax payerima) popust na letovanje sledece godine :P

E to to... tako vec moze :)

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 11:34 · pre 203 meseca #4

I ne stoji za Italiju vec za Irsku !

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 11:40 · pre 203 meseca #5

Stoji stoji - postoji i PIIGS tako da su svi zadovoljni :)

Portugal Italy Ireland Greece Spain

http://www.danpink.com/archives/2009/12/acronym-of-the-day-piigs

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Today’s Wall Street Journal reports that some bearish international investors have coined a new term for the countries that they believe are the weak links of the euro zone: PIIGS — which stands for Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain.

That follows on the heels of the oft-used term for the most important emerging markets — the BRIC countries of Brazil, Russia, India, and China. And then there’s the less popular acronym for the dangerous, nuclear-armed states of Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea. That group is called, uh, never mind.

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 11:50 · pre 203 meseca #6

kojesta, Italija nikako ne spada u grupu sa ovim zemljama. Naprotiv, Italija zajedno sa F, D i UK cini veliku cetvorku i stubove EU ekonomije. Stavise, italijanska ekonomija je puno zilavija i od nemacke jer nema veliki udeo u gigantima koji su posebno osetljivi na svetske lomove. I na kraju: Italijani vec 10 godina mastaju da sahrane prokleti evro, da vrate lire i da zive kao ljudi.

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 11:52 · pre 203 meseca #7

A iza svega se krije, US of A !

http://www.independent.co.uk/n...-greek-connection-1899527.html

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Goldman Sachs has been the most important of more than a dozen banks used by the Greek government to manage its national debt using derivatives.

The bank's traders created a number of financial deals that allowed the country to raise money to cut its budget deficit now, in return for repayments over time or at a later date.

Ukratko, Grci su koristili US banke da bi mogli da se zaduzuju i da izbegnu ogranicenje deficita od 3% GDP, sto nalaze EU.

Inace EU je nedavno prekinula SWIFT dogovor sa US of A, po kojem su se svi podaci o svim SWIFT transakcijama slali u US. Dok obrnuto nije vazilo, US nije slala podatke EU o svojim transakcijama. Mogucnosti data-mininga i zloupotreba takvih podataka su kolosalne.

http://www.neurope.eu/articles...IFT-deal-is-off--now/99113.php

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 12:07 · pre 203 meseca #8

Sto se tice Italije:

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Industrial output in Italy has slumped 6.6 percent over the past year. Fiat announced plant closures and temporary layoffs at factories in Turin, Melfi and Sicily. Car sales in Italy have fallen by almost 20 percent over each of the past two months.Italy's car workers' union said, "The situation is evidently more serious than had been understood." On 10 July 2008 economic think tank ISAE lowered its growth forecast for Italy to 0.4 percent from 0.5 percent and cut the 2009 outlook to 0.7 percent from 1.2 percent. Analysts have predicted Italy had entered a recession in the second quarter or would enter one by the end of the year with business confidence at its lowest levels since the September 11 attacks. Italy's economy contracted by 0.3 percent in the second quarter of 2008. In December 2009 the unemployment rate reached 8.5%

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=milk-cow-2010-02-11

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...When the economic crisis erupted in our neighbor Greece, all EU member states – especially Spain, Portugal, Italy and France – became deeply worried because all of them share the same problems. They have big public deficits and are overly indebted....

....We believe nothing can touch us and live by daily artificial agendas. For the time being, the decision EU officials made for a bailout for Greece has created a transient atmosphere of calm, but the question mark is how the global crisis will be solved as Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy remain burdened with such colossal debts....

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 12:18 · pre 203 meseca #9

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Igor Gajic
A iza svega se krije, US of A !

Ni jedna EU drzava nije ogranicena na to odakle ce pozajmljivati pare... to sto su Grci uradili je njihova krivica jer su neodgovorno trosili mnogo vise od onoga sto stvaraju. USA banke posluju sa svima, nije njihova stvar da uce klijente kako da se racionalno ponasaju sa novcem. Te usluge se placaju, ako vec nekom treba finansijski staratelj, a Grcima ocigledno treba.

I ne vidim gde se tu USA "krije" - kada se radi o sasvim javnim poslovima. EU nije mama pa da brani nekome da puca sebi u nogu, naravno - posledice obicno dolaze kasnije, kada se uradi godisnji presek.

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Beltrammi
kojesta, Italija nikako ne spada u grupu sa ovim zemljama. Naprotiv, Italija zajedno sa F, D i UK cini veliku cetvorku i stubove EU ekonomije. Stavise, italijanska ekonomija je puno zilavija i od nemacke jer nema veliki udeo u gigantima koji su posebno osetljivi na svetske lomove. I na kraju: Italijani vec 10 godina mastaju da sahrane prokleti evro, da vrate lire i da zive kao ljudi.

LOL :) Da li si ti skoro pogledao finansijski presek Italije koji pokazuje enorman dug i gomilu drugih finansijskih problema? Nazivati tu dugom prenatrpanu ekonomiju "zilavijom od nemacke" je... totalni hit :)

I naravno da se nadaju vracanju Lire - bas kao i Grci za Drahmu, zato sto bi onda fino mogli da odstampaju lovu... i tata bi sine.

Ko im brani? A, da, ipak je lepo biti u Eur zoni kada treba da se moli ECB za pomoc...

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 12:27 · pre 203 meseca #10

Btw,

http://www.minyanville.com/bus...blic-balance/2/4/2010/id/26692

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The participation of the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain) in the EU structure is suffering a 9.0 earthquake -- these countries are now three to five times above the Maastricht deficit levels and over the last 65 years their populations haven't accepted belt tightening without socio-political unrest. So their choice is either to thumb their nose to the EU and the very essence on which the euro is based or suffer crippling popular strife.

And if anyone thinks that Germans and French will go along with using their already depleted coffers to prop up their millennial-old cultural enemies, I have multiple bridges to sell you. Also, bear in mind that the distinction between the ability of the PIIGS to sell debt to plug the immediate holes isn't nearly as serious as their ability to service this debt at even marginally higher than historical rates, and as a point of reference Italy to German debt spreads are now 0.60-0.80 bps wider than they have been since the euro came about. That extra 1% on debt loads of 100% to 130% of GDP goes straight down to the deficit making any notion of tightening belts even less likely. And so the spiral goes.

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 12:28 · pre 203 meseca #11

Evo malo za Beltrammi-a da procita :)

http://www.emerginvest.com/Glo...Government_Debt_In_Europe.html

Posebno deo o Italiji i kako se skriva dug tako da se u izvestajima ne vidi. :)

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 13:34 · pre 203 meseca #12

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Ivan Dimkovic: Hehe bankari ih vec zovu PIGS (Portugal / Italy / Greece / Spain)

Uobicajena skracenica, koristi se u raznim industrijama.

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 14:10 · pre 203 meseca #13

Kada vidim koliko Grci često prave proteste, demonstracije i uopštene prekide rada, ni ne čudi me ovakav ishod.

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A man is smart. People are stupid.

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 14:39 · pre 203 meseca #14

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burex: Kada vidim koliko Grci često prave proteste, demonstracije i uopštene prekide rada, ni ne čudi me ovakav ishod.

A nemaju previse opcija u ovoj situaciji. Mogu se busati jos malo. Budzet u banani, a oni ne prihvataju povecanje poreza, niti smanjenje rashoda. Drzava ih jeste posteno za*ebala, al' sta je tu je, dzaba sada protestovati - para nema. EU il' MMF ce im izaci u susret, al' to nije ni blizu rjesenju problema vec samo odlaganje u nesto mnogo vece i gore ukoliko se narod ne uozbilji i ne prihvati uslove koji znace "stezanje kaisa" do daljnjeg.

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Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with
experience.

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 15:37 · pre 203 meseca #15

Fora je sto je njima isto tako fin % ekonomije u crnoj zoni, dakle nije ih samo "drzava za*ebala" vec su i oni sami sebe za*ebali.

Dakle, firme kraduckaju, ljudi kraduckaju, drzava isto tako kraducka (imaju ogroman drzavni aparat = korupcija i neefikasnost) - a kada ponestane para neminovno posto niko ne moze naplacati sva ta kraduckanja, onda su zajmili od drugih - i to preko svake mere... Kako bi se provukli, jos su lazirali i knjige.

Najbolje je da im niko ne pomaze vec da puknu i opasulje se - bilo kakva "pomoc" je vrlo losa usluga, jer ce samo odloziti neminovno. To je kao kada bi narkomanu prepisali terapiju heroinom uz pricu da ce mu to pomoci da prestane da bude narkoman.

Problem sa ovim je sto ce se ako im niko ne pljusne lovu dici buka kako ce i ostale zemlje iz ekipe biti pustene niz vodu, sto moze izazvati globalni fire-sale svih vrednosnih papira vezanih za PIGS. To bi izazvalo haos... ali, sta znam, mozda ni to nije lose na kraju krajeva. Neko bi KONACNO trebao da bude KAZNJEN za postupke. Ovako se stice utisak da svako moze da radi sta mu je volja, jer kada bude zveknuo glavom u zid - naci ce se neka dobrica da ga spase.

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 15:56 · pre 203 meseca #16

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Ivan Dimkovic: Ovako se stice utisak da svako moze da radi sta mu je volja, jer kada bude zveknuo glavom u zid - naci ce se neka dobrica da ga spase.

Upravo tako, bas zbog ovoga mnogi analiticari i savjetnici smatraju kako EU ne treba "olako" da pritekne u pomoc Grckoj. Ima smisla obzirom da bi, vjerovatno, neke druge clanice koje imaju takodje probleme sa deficitom budzeta, problemu pristupile "lezernije" i ne bi se toliko trudili da ostanu u onih 3%, tj. ne pod svaku cijenu(EU ce da uskoci, ako zagusti).

Sa druge strane, opet, se raspravlja o tome kakvu ce sliku EU poslati drugima, tj. da li ce prepustanje Grcke samoj sebi(MMF-u) rezultirati padom znacaja EU na globalnoj sceni, tj. da li ce se odraziti kao slabost, te pokopati temeljne EU principe povjerenja i solidarnosti(mada ih je Grcka izigrala :)).

Potpis

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with
experience.

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 16:00 · pre 203 meseca #17

Znas kako,

Cela ta stvar sa 3% je farsa zato sto je prvo i pre svega dozovljeno Francuskoj vise puta da iskace iz toga. Kada pustis jednog, ne mozes ocekivati da drugi to postuju.

Medjutim, treba napomenuti da je problem Grcke daleko veci - oni su >lagali< prilikom kandidature za Euro zonu i lazirali su kljucne informacije koje bi ih diskvalifikovale za ulazak u Euro zonu.

Prema tome, Grkca za pocetak mora biti kaznjena za to - i to je sasvim dobar izgovor da im se ne pomogne "sirokih ruku".

Sve i da to "oslabi" imidz EU to ce svakako naterati neke drzave da "stave prst na celo" oko svojih bahanalija. Ono, postoji nekoliko EU zemalja koje vode zaista ozbiljnu i racionalnu fiskalnu politiku, a ona ostala gomila se ponasa kao neka pijana osoba podlozna kocki. To je za svaku osudu i kaznu.

Ako nema kazne - svaka regulacija je besmislena.

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Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 16:35 · pre 203 meseca #18

Grcka ce biti spasena Nemackim parama, jer MORAJU im pomoci, inace ode E niz vodu a samim tim i EU...
Malo ce da ih stisnu, ali ce MORATI da iskesiraju za mediteranske neradnike...

Nego, lako cemo mi za Grcku sta cemo sa glavnim svetskim duznikom, USA: dug skoro 100% BDP, deficit > 100% u 2009 i 2010, a u najboljem slucaju se planira da na kraju mandata Obame bude duplo manji tj 5-6% BDP-a...

Ovde je problem 30-ak milijardi E koje se bacaju Grckoj, a sta je 180 milijardi $ za AIG, da ne pricamo za ostale "velikane" finansijske industrije, a tu su i GM i Crysler...

Jel i oni treba da odgovaraju? Jel i oni treba da propadnu?

Sve se ovo izdeformisalo, ceo svetski finansijski sistem je duboko zaglibio u dekadenciju...

Glavni ekonomski faktor je ucena: ako me ne spasis odosmo svi u 3 lepe...

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 16:39 · pre 203 meseca #19

Laziranje informacija bez sumnje ne bi smjelo proci nekaznjeno. E sada, na koji nacin to uraditi u ovoj situaciji, tesko je reci.

Sve u svemu, pred Grckom je veoma tezak period, i bilo sta da odluce celni ljudi EU i Grcke, stanovnistvo ce osjetiti tezak udarac. Slicnu situaciju predvidjaju i Spaniji, te Irskoj negdje na ljeto(s tim da Spanija vec sada ima veoma visok procenat nezaposlenosti) tako da ce biti jako veselo kada se pojave prvi ozbiljni nedostaci sredstava u drzavnom budzetu. :)

Negdje procitah: "U 2009. smo spasavali banke, a danas spasavamo drzave.".

Potpis

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with
experience.

Re: Germans say euro zone may have to expel Greece: poll 15.02.2010. u 16:54 · pre 203 meseca #20

PIGS kriza dolazi Nemačkoj i Francuskoj u pravo vreme i oni će odugovlačiti sa njom što je više moguće da bi oborili evro i malo pomogli izvozu koji je nokautiran prošle godine kontrakcijom tržišta i rastom evra.

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#define TRUE FALSE /*Happy debugging suckers*/

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